S2 Bonus - Salem Belladonna on The Alchemy of Self

00:00 • Welcome to the podcast

00:08 • Discovering Salem: Composer, performer, and alchemist

01:29 • The creative process and overcoming challenges

06:19 • The impact of perfectionism and writer's block on creativity

07:18 • Exploring the concept of alchemy in art and life

09:25 • Instant alchemy: Transforming boredom into serenity

12:34 • Alchemy in performance: Transforming anxiety into excitement

15:02 • Setting goals: Embracing live performances despite anxiety

19:32 • Merging multiple passions: Music, yoga, and alchemy

22:41 • Introducing sound alchemy: Transforming sound and healing

23:43 • Unlocking creative potential through sound alchemy

25:46 • The power of sublimation: Transforming negative emotions into art

30:06 • Navigating mental health: Resources and personal journey

35:07 • The art of self-care and ritual in creativity

39:05 • Exploring the act of creation: Composition and performance

45:10 • Finding community and inspiration in fearless mastery

Leo

Welcome to the Zen Habits podcast, where we dive into how to work with uncertainty, resistance, and fear around our meaningful work. This is for anyone who wants to create an impact in the world and cares deeply enough to do the work. I'm your host, Leo Babauta, creator of the Zen Habits blog.

Okay, Salem, welcome to the podcast. It's great to have you on here.

Salem

It's amazing to be here. Thank you so much for having me.

Leo

I don't know what I should tell people about you because we've known each other for a little while now and we've worked together in different ways, but I'll mention a couple of things. One is, first of all, I wanted to have you on here because you are a composer, a performer, and a teacher of music and art. And, second of all, you have done some really deep work for yourself and you're stepping into a really powerful kind of work, which you call alchemy.

So, I want to talk about all of that, but I also want to tell people that you've been in Fearless Mastery doing some really deep work there for several rounds now, and you've come to our retreat in Costa Rica and North Carolina. And so, I think it'd be really cool to talk about how you have done work there and it's affected or helped your creative work. And then, one last thing I want to share is that you are the co-creator, probably the main creator of the music that starts this podcast.

Salem

Yes.

Leo

And that's your voice.

Salem

Yes.

Leo

That people can hear.

Salem

And cello.

Leo

And cello. Okay, cool. And yeah, they've been listening to your work, probably for a little while now.

Salem

It's such a joy and a gift to be able to provide something for your podcast.

Leo

Cool. Thank you for that contribution. Like your art is in mine. So, I really appreciate that. Thank you. Okay. So, there's a lot to talk about. Let's just start with a little bit about you as a creator. You've been performing and composing for a while now. I don't know how long, actually. How long have you been composing?

Salem

I've been composing since I could reach a piano. Basically, I was very lucky to be born into a musical family. Basically, as soon as I was able to speak, I was singing more or less and coming up with little melodies. So, it's just in my blood, music. Yeah.

Leo

And then professionally, how long have you been performing and composing?

Salem

Oh, sure. I started around the age of 13 playing in coffee shops. Yeah. And I released my first album at the age of 14. So, I started recording that when I was like, 12. Very fortunate to have access to the resources to do that. So, I got started pretty young.

Leo

Wow. That's amazing. Like, I, at that age, I don't know if I could have actually gotten onto a stage or stood in front of people and done something. So, that's, that takes a lot of courage.

Salem

It was easier the younger I was. Like when I was a little girl, it was all I wanted to do was be on stage. And the older I got, the more in my head I got, the harder it started to get. Interesting journey.

Leo

That is interesting. Can we talk about that? Is it okay if we?

Salem

Yeah, sure.

Leo

Okay. So, you said the older you got, the more self-conscious or in your head. Yeah, tell me more about that. Like, how did that evolve and what age was that happening? And then, what effect did that have on you performing?

Salem

Man, that was probably when I hit middle school, that's like when all the hormones start happening. So, there's the growing up stuff that happens for sure. But also, just, you start to become more aware of yourself in the world and the impact of the self. And as an artist, it's easy to draw attention, both positive and negative. And so, when you start to get the negative attention, at least in my experience, I got the message of "You need to dim your light. You need to shut down a little bit because this is too much. You're too much." And so, I learned young that I was actually doing the world a service by not shining my talents.

Leo

By dimming yourself down, that was a service to others.

Salem

Yes. Yeah. That's the message I started getting around then. And it was, yeah, it took a big blow on my performance.

Leo

That's difficult. Yeah. Sorry to, sorry if I cut you off. I think our network connection is a little choppy, but that's had to be difficult. And so, I love that you're sharing that because it's a really vulnerable thing, but I imagine people listening or watching, there's going to be a bunch who can relate to that. This, "You are too much." And to keep myself safe, I have to dim myself. Which has to be difficult when you're getting on stage and performing. Yeah, tell me more about that.

Salem

Yeah. There was like this double message happening where on one hand, those who are trying to support me, like my family, are telling me, "You need to shine. You need to go out and build a career for yourself at this age." Because it's nice to have that direction, right? That early in life to know, okay, I want to do music.

But then, there's also this from the same people, the message of "Oh, you're intimidating your family members. You're intimidating, like other people. And you're a show off, basically. You're being a show off, so don't show off." And so, it's like, how do you straddle the line between not being called a show off, but also you need to own up to all your gifts and constantly be performing and making the most of yourself because it's a talent, right?

Leo

Yeah, those contrasting messages. So, there's this really thin line in the middle where it's like you're just enough. You're not too little, inadequate, and you're not too much that's going to impact others. And so, it's better just to find that perfect balance, which is impossible. And so, I imagine there's a lot of anxiety with that and maybe even reluctance to get on stage. I don't know. Is that true?

Salem

Oh, yeah. It's heartbreaking. There's so much that I'd love to perform, but yeah, no, I have terrible anxiety when I get on stage now, and it's, I do remember what it was like not to have it. That's quite an interesting experience.

Leo

That's heartbreaking. And I want to make sure it's clear. This is not just about your family, but really all of our families. Our families will give us messages like this that they receive from their parents or the world, and they don't realize they're doing this most of the time. So, I'm not trying to defend anybody, and I'm also not here to bash any family members of anyone who's listening or watching.

As we all know, our parents are usually doing their best, not just parents, but siblings, grandparents, and our whole community. They're usually doing their best. And they also have these kinds of things that they've been given. And so, they're like, "Oh, to keep my kids safe, this is usually how it goes." I'm definitely not speaking about your case in particular, but just generally how it goes is, "I have to keep my kids safe. I have to teach them, 'Don't be too much or not enough.'" But what you're talking about is like the real impact of those messages that we're getting from the world.

Salem

Yeah, and there's no way to win. Like you said, it's impossible to straddle that line. And it definitely led to the development of perfectionism, which is the greatest enemy to creation. And my experience, writer's block, in my experience, is just perfectionism. I'd definitely be interested to, cause I know there's going to be a lot of artists listening to this, who have their own experiences with writer's block. And I'd have to ask anybody who's experiencing writer's block, "Do you consider yourself a perfectionist?"

Leo

That's interesting.

Salem

Yeah, that's super interesting, and I'd love to hear more about that, actually.

Leo

So, if people want to respond to this, we'll have this on YouTube so you can put comments there. But you can also email in at [email protected], and I will make sure Salem hears about your experiences. "Do you consider yourself a perfectionist if you have writer's block?" Yeah, cool.

Salem

And if you don't, then I just want to hear more about your writer's block experience as a non-perfectionist.

Leo

That leads us to like, how do we work with that? And so, I'd love to hear more about you, but cause I, I know that you not only have been working with that perfectionism and writer's block type of energy, but you've actually been going deeper into how to work with all of this and something that you hit on while you've been actually in Fearless Mastery called alchemy. And so, I'd love for you to talk about alchemy and how you're working with those difficult things.

Salem

Sure. So, alchemy, in its most basic form, is just the process of transformation. So, in a sense, everything around us is in some state of alchemy since nothing stays the same. In the case of art, what I love about alchemy is, if we take something, if we value it for its transformation, we look at art. What if the value is in the act of creating itself and not necessarily in the final product?

So basically, if we consider, in the most popular idea of alchemy, again, alchemy is the process of transformation. We can look at the example of the ancient alchemist who is trying to turn lead into gold. As an artist, we're turning nothing into something. We work in the medium of human experience, and we literally see where there's nothing to be seen, nothing to be experienced. we can turn that into emotion and dreams and inspiration. And that is alchemy.

So, any artist, any act of creation is alchemy. And that goes beyond artists too. We all are alchemists. We're all creating all the time as business owners, when we're bringing in money, we're creating; we're as a family, we're creating our family; as friends and humans, we're creating relationships. There's so much alchemy happening all around us. And when we tap into that, we can find a more empowered relationship with the changes rather than feeling like a victim of them, in my opinion. And so, that's the power of art as alchemy.

Leo

Art as alchemy. That's such a beautiful idea. So, how do we let's talk about writer's block and perfectionism and performance anxiety and how we might work with alchemy with those things.

Salem

Sure. There are a couple of different ways that I've been approaching working with alchemy. There's what I call the instant alchemy, and then there's the more prolonged, drawn-out process. Instant alchemy is an easier place to get started because that's just as simple as a flip in perspective. For example, a powerful one I work with was boredom. I think I might've shared this example before. I'm somebody who deals a lot with boredom and being driven to ridiculous things to avoid it.

And so, what if I can transform that boredom into serenity? And so, that for me was really powerful. Just a simple shift in my perspective that when I'm in a state of boredom, can I remember? Wait a moment, wait a minute. This is a moment of just serenity and calmness. And then suddenly that boredom is transformed from something I need to run from into something that I want to lean into. Just through that shift in perspective. So that is alchemy.

Leo

Yeah. So, could I add something to that? Just because this, I think this is such an important topic that you're hitting on. And so, I just want to reinforce, second, the idea you just said. I think a lot of us so don't want to be bored that we like, we'll build our whole lives around it, social media and scrolling on our phones and watching YouTube and Netflix, and all of those things are all ways to get away from this experience of boredom, and alcohol, drugs, food. These are all other ways that we do to not feel bored. And yeah, if you can do some alchemy to actually transform that experience, I love that one, to serenity. All of a sudden, it becomes this part of the amazing experience of life as opposed to this thing that we just cannot be with.

Salem

Exactly.

Leo

That's incredible work.

Salem

Yeah. And that's the turning the lead into gold rather than running away from the lead or trying to throw it away and saying, "Where's my gold?" You have a mountain of lead. You have a mountain of gold, but the question is, how do you get there? So, that's the challenge, but I do want to give credit the boredom to serenity. It was a friend of mine who offered or who helped me to figure that out. And so, that's the alchemy of relationship, joining minds.

Leo

Yeah. And I'll just, that boredom to serenity thing, I just want to just say again, I love it. Thank you for giving credit to, we can't always remember who we can give credit to sometimes, but that's good when we can. But this is something that if you're a meditator, that can sometimes be a transformation that happens without you even purposely trying. Because boredom is actually one of the things that come up for people where they're like, "Ah, I just can't meditate. I'm not equipped for it or something," but it's because boredom starts to come up and then we want to get away from it, but we've committed ourselves to staying with it. And it becomes a real struggle.

And if you do it for long enough, eventually it does turn into serenity. But if you can do it consciously, like you're saying, I think it actually happens faster. That's so cool. So, it's just like a conscious, actual transformation rather than just something that just happens accidentally. So, let's imagine I have a performance coming up and I'm about to, like, I'm freaking out. So, "Oh, I don't want to do this." And I'm feeling anxiety. And is there something that I can do to work with that, either instant alchemy or what's the other one?

Salem

Like the long, seven-step alchemy is the one I've been using. And people disagree over how many steps there are, but seven's a good number, not too many. But, so this is a really cool example, actually. There's a friend of mine who I went to college with, who is a performer, and she does not experience fear. So, she actually is the one who I learned this transformation from, but she shared with us that she's jealous of people who experience stage fright and fear before their performance because it means that they are, they're scared. In a sense, they care a lot. With her, she doesn't feel these intense emotions, so she doesn't have excitement either for her performances. It's basically the same as brushing her teeth.

And so, she said, the and actually, physiologically speaking, from my understanding, excitement and anxiety are the same. It's like the heart's racing, and you start to get a little sweaty and all of that good stuff. So, if you can shift the anxiety to a realization that this is something you really care about, you wouldn't be this scared if you weren't really hyped somewhere to be in this position or if you didn't care a lot about this opportunity. So, is there excitement to be found in the fact that you're about to step into something so meaningful to yourself? That's a tricky one, but yeah, I just, yeah.

Leo

Part of this season about creation and creativity is love. And so, I married the two together, love and creation. And I think that's what you're talking about is, if we didn't care so much, if this wasn't an expression of our hearts and our love, then we would just feel nothing. It's like brushing your teeth, right? But yeah, it comes with it. It's like a part of the experience is to have this nervousness. So, there's like shakiness and it's, "Oh, this, if you're going out on a second date with someone who you had a great time with" and you're like, "Oh, I care about this person, but I'm really feeling shaky about it."

Salem

Exactly. It's the same thing. And that feeling, the butterflies in our stomach, we love it. And so, the same with a roller coaster. So, we can actually transform in that moment. The opportunity is there to transform that anxiety into excitement. But it takes practice.

Leo

For sure. Yeah. Okay. There are a number of places that I'm interested in going to. So, I'll just... So, since we're on the topic of performance, you've been performing for years in different ways, but I know that one of the things you want to do more this year is do more live performances. So, can you tell me about that goal and why that matters to you, but also how you're working with the anxiety around all of that?

Salem

Yeah. So, this is a goal that, again, since I was a child, I wanted to be on stage. That was my first dream, was to share music and art with the world. And it's been heartbreaking to feel separated from it because of my fear and anxiety. So, stepping back into performance now, I know that I'm going to be throwing myself headfirst into all of that. Exactly what we were just talking about, stage fright. I do really well on my own or in front of maybe just a couple of people. But as soon as we are in front of, in a higher pressure situation, our body is literally like a brand-new body trying to perform through all of that heart racing and such.

So, for me, the alchemy is, I'm using both the instant alchemy and the seven-step in order to approach this journey for myself. The instant alchemy I'll be working with is, of course, the sort of anxiety to excitement that we were just talking about. The long-term alchemy, the seven steps, I will basically be breaking it down into, I can't really, I have to go into this, the process. Do you mind if I open up a little about that?

Leo

Go for it. Sure.

Salem

Sure. In a nutshell, if we were to lay out our seven steps, you have Calcination, Dissolution, Separation, Conjunction, Fermentation, Distillation, and Coagulation. So those seven steps are fancy terms, but we can turn them into something that means something practical for our lives.

So, step one, Calcination, is awareness, just becoming aware of what it is we're trying to transform. So in my case, I want to perform, and I've been holding myself back. Step two, Dissolution, would be dissolving ourselves into the process. So just throwing myself into it and collecting data with as little judgment as possible, with the softness of water. Step three would be Separation. This is where I'm going to actually start to analyze the data that I just collected in the last step. And we can separate it into thoughts, feelings, and physical.

We move into Conjunction, which is where we add it all together. And this is where I create a realistic view of what the situation actually is. Like, how do the actions I've taken added up to me being in this specific situation? And from there, I'm empowered to visualize where I want to go and find a path to that place. So, that step is where it all comes together.

Fermentation, the next step, is where we add a catalyst in. So, this is basically, if we keep doing the same thing, we're going to get the same results. So, we have to throw a wrench in the machine and do something new. So, fermentation is, after all the analysis, now do something different. Start with one thing at a time and just keep up with it. Try to see how it changes your situation. So, in my case, what I'm going to do differently is, I'm going to start gigging. I haven't booked myself a show. So, that's going to be a huge catalyst for me.

After that, Distillation is the ongoing of the pain of that process, turning it into something beautiful. In which case for me, that will be having the ability to perform through anxiety. And then finally, Coagulation is where we celebrate ourselves for the transformation we made. And at that point, I'll be talking to my audience about everything I've been through to get to these shows.

Leo

Amazing. I love that celebration includes bringing people in and letting them know this is the journey that I've been on so they can benefit from that.

Salem

Yeah, exactly. And then it all restarts again. It's a never-ending process.

Leo

Yeah. And these steps, if correct me if I'm wrong, you drew from some wisdom of Alchemy that's been developed over the centuries.

Salem

Yeah. So these seven steps are part of... I'm not actually entirely sure who they're attributed to, but they are attributed or they're related to spiritual alchemy, is what I've heard. So they're usually used in a metaphorical sense. The actual physical steps that real alchemists would have taken to actually create gold, which, as far as we know, never happened, but there are tales. Nobody really agrees and knows what those are.

Leo

Okay. So they took this physical thing that people, that the alchemists were trying to do, and turned it into a spiritual.

Salem

Exactly.

Leo

Okay. Got it. Beautiful. You hit on that. I think you've been doing some elements of this, but at one point, I feel like it was last year, maybe it was the year before, you hit on this, and I remember how excited you were because this was such a big epiphany for you that led to so much possibility. Can you tell me about that moment?

Salem

Sure, so this was on the retreat in Costa Rica, and we were doing the exercise where we were being asked to do something that was a challenge for us, like at our edge. And so, what I wanted to do was lead a meditation and also a music class, and mix my yoga with my music teaching. And so, I was asked to go and do meditation, and anyway, so I did that, and it was amazing to realize that I can actually mix these different parts of myself in a society where we're often, at least the message I've gotten, is that you have to put yourself in a box.

You have to be a cellist, or you have to be a doctor. For me, I've always struggled with being a very multifaceted artist. I am also a writer, I'm a visual artist, I play multiple instruments, I'm a composer, but when you go to school for these things, you have to pick one. You're a composer, or you're a cellist, or you're a pianist. And if you switch between them, at least at one of the conservatories I went to for high school, which I was so lucky to do, but there's almost this element of you're cheating on your instrument. You're not as committed as you should be because you're dabbling in all these other things.

The sort of jack of all trades, master of none mentality. But what was it? Yes, I've changed that phrase to "jack of all trades, commit to each one." And I feel as long as you really are committed to each of these multiple trades, they're all going to become one unified whole. They're really, it's not like there's Salem the cellist and she's different than Salem the visual artist. Like, I am alchemy, every single one of us is alchemy.

We're not this one thing in a box. You can be a doctor and a trumpet player. You know what I mean? And oh man, Borodin is a great example of this. He was a chemist and a composer. I learned about the same man in my chemistry class and then played one of his pieces with my orchestra. Like, how cool is that, right? Yeah. So anyway, I think we could use a lot more of that in our world.

Leo

I love that. Just being devoted in multiple places and then just bringing them together and finding the magic that happens.

Salem

Exactly. Yeah.

Leo

Yeah. And you've been playing with that, right? Bringing your... so, you, I didn't mention this earlier, but you've been a yoga teacher for a while and a music teacher. And so just bringing these different things that were like completely separate worlds and merging them together. You've been playing with that since. How has that been working with others?

Salem

Oh, it's been amazing. I've been learning so much and learning about how alchemy actually does help people change their lives. It's alchemical philosophy. But I've been offering a class that I'm calling Alchemy, which stands for All Life Can Heal Music and Yoga, and it's a mixture of Yoga, and it's like an hour and a half long. We start with 15 to 20 minutes of yoga and then do a full-length music lesson and then discuss alchemical philosophy and how we can use that to grow as musicians and also in our lives.

Leo

Fascinating. And people can work with you if I put a link. They can come and work with you this way. Yeah, I'd love to keep sharing Alchemy. Okay, this is amazing. You also have a term for the, I think it's the performances that you want to be doing this year, called Sound Alchemy.

Salem

Oh, yes.

Leo

So can you tell me about that term. And tell me more about it.

Salem

Yeah. So I adopted that because I'm such a multifaceted musician. So, for example, I'm a composer and a songwriter, and they are put into separate buckets because there are some differences. But I like to, I don't like to always be like a hyphen-hyphen. So, sound alchemist to me is my way of saying I work in transforming sound, like period. And all of us are sound alchemists. As long as we create sound, when you speak, when you clap, you're sculpting sound waves. That is creation.

So, I just dedicate my life, all of my work, to the sculpting of those waves in ways that bring the most healing, hopefully, to people. So, sound alchemy.

Leo

You mentioned bringing healing to others. So, I'd love to hear about that. Cause I know talking to, before we scheduled this episode, I know that you're committed to performing and creating music, not just because it sounds nice or it would be fun, but there's an actual impact that you'd like to have. Can you talk more about that?

Salem

Yeah, absolutely. So, as a creator, I'm somebody who's been choked up my whole life because of anxiety, fear, writer's block. Having art on the other side of the act of creating felt like such an impossible task. And I know that there are so many artists and creators who are going through the exact same thing. There are so many poems unshared and so many beautiful songs unwritten because of just that self-doubt.

So, it's my hope that through this expression of sound alchemy, I can help people come more in touch with their ability to create. And not create for the sake of making art that's gonna get you famous and pay all your bills. But creating for the sake of creating. Creating for the sake of being in the space of, in a sense, god or goddess that we are all imbued with this incredible life-giving power that we use to sustain our own lives. So when we're creating, we're stepping into that exact same power, no matter what comes out of the other end. So, create for creation's sake; you don't have to be an artist, just express yourself. And that will bring healing.

Leo

Amazing. That's such an important message, in this season that I'm creating here. You bringing that message right now, I think, is such an important thing because I do think a lot of us are given messages that like, "I'm not a creative type. I can't make music. I can't make art. I can't write." I know that I've received those messages around visual art and music as well when I was younger. And I think we don't realize that we're given these messages. But it sounds like you're opening people to more possibility and the possibility, not only of creating but of what that can create in people's lives.

Salem

Exactly. And the shadows that come up for us when we're creating, very much in line with your work, like if it's coming up for you here, it's coming up for you in other places in your life, right? So, it's also a powerful alchemy there when you're creating; you are interfacing with your shadows. And you are going to, you're dancing with them, though.

And so, this brings me to that idea of sublimation, the idea that we can take really dark, difficult energies or things that are ugly, right, and turn them into something beautiful. An example would be anger. You could either express your anger through yelling at somebody or doing something really destructive, or you could express your anger through a really visceral, raw piece of art, that ends up being a reminder to you of the time that you didn't lash out, the time that you chose to sublimate and channel your experience into something healing.

Leo

Yeah, that's such a powerful idea. So tell me how that would work. Let's just say I'm pissed off today, right? Or like my coworker snapped at me, and I've been stewing about it all day. And, of course, one thing I could do is yell at them. I could yell at my kids. I could stew about it, or I could just try and forget about it, and that's one kind of sublimation, just like suppressor. But I don't think that's the sublimation you're talking about. So tell me about how I could actually work with that.

Salem

Yeah, that would be basically feeling the energy. We're not pushing it away; with alchemy, we're working with the lead. It's so important that it's not escapism. So we're feeling the emotion. But we are aware of the impact that we're creating in the world at the same time and whether that impact is negative or net positive. And if you're feeling your anger and your impact is resulting in everybody around you frowning and running away, then that's probably not sublimation. But if you're feeling your anger, and then, I would recommend being alone, but that piece of art, what it is that you create out of it, can either be personal, something that no one ever sees.

So if you're working, if you're feeling this emotion, you're working with it, and then the net impact around you is positive. That might look like, if you're painting, that might look like now you've got these beautiful shapes and lines in front of you. If you're making sounds, you've now got a soundscape that's helping you to channel this experience. Even if you're making like heavy metal or really jagged, those visceral sounds, you're experiencing the energy still, but in a way that is... I think there's almost a feeling of release, catharsis. That's the word. It's cathartic in a way that doesn't leave a bad taste in your mouth, unlike the catharsis we get from yelling at people.

Leo

Yeah, you could see the negative impact if I'm yelling at the person who pissed me off or other people who didn't have anything to do with it. So yeah, just taking that same energy and not shying away from it and escaping from it, but actually letting ourselves feel it but create a more positive, net positive.

Salem

Exactly. And the world is more beautiful now because you created some art.

Leo

One thing I love about that is that you said just let yourself feel it. And I think a lot of times we have this idea we don't want to feel it. So that's why I'm going to numb myself out or escape escapism. It's just there's this idea, "Ah, I just don't want to feel this way. " But it sounds like you are helping people to create a more empowered relationship to those feelings so that it's okay to feel that way. That's really important.

Salem

Yeah. That's I think that's also why I like to explore dark topics in my music and dark tonalities and stuff because it's a way to get closer to our shadows, but it's not, it doesn't taste so bad. It's like putting sugar on the medicine. Yeah. Art allows us to work with our shadows in a much more gentle way.

Leo

That's amazing. I think people shy away from dark stuff in their art because of their relationship to these shadows. There's a book that I was reading a couple of months ago about darkness that was so amazing. I'm just, I'm going to find the title later, but it was by a Zen priest who's a black woman, and she also has done a lot of work around medicine, like as a woman, she's a medicine woman as well. And so she examines our relationship to darkness, and it was really profound. And it sounds like you're doing some very similar stuff of actually taking, like letting yourself create art around darkness. That's really amazing.

Salem

Thank you. Thank you. Yeah.

Leo

There's a couple of other topics I want to touch on. So you've been sharing some amazing things, and I really appreciate that. I want to talk about mental health journeys. Are you up for that?

Salem

Totally.

Leo

Okay, cool. So the reason why is because I think there are so many people who are dealing with mental health issues, especially these days. I think it's always been the case, but I think the pandemic turned up the heat on all of that. And so we're faced with this stuff, and we don't know how to work with it. So you have been in a lot of different ways. Do you want to talk about that a little bit? Can you share a little bit about your journey?

Salem

Yeah, absolutely. I would say it's really important just to get support, and I know that is itself a really big hurdle for a lot of people because if you don't have health insurance, it feels completely impossible. It feels really difficult to get support. Now, that's not true; I learned it's not impossible.

Leo

Okay. It's heartbreaking, though, that people are just not doing it because it feels impossible. Yet, can you actually tell us about that?

GPT

Salem

So I myself went without health insurance for, I think about three or four years because I thought it was impossible. And there are programs out there, for example, free/slash sliding scale clinics that offer doctors' appointments to people without health insurance. So, I would definitely recommend looking that up, free clinics. And there are other programs as well that actually will pay for your bills, like there are charity programs. I don't know any off the top of my head, but you can look up local programs and then apply for their help. And one that I knew of will give you the ride; they'll come and pick you up and take you to your appointment. So yeah, there are definitely resources out there, but they're hard to find. They're definitely not made super easily available.

Leo

Thank you for sharing that. That's such an important message for people like, just take that away and they forget about all the rest. Yeah. That's an important thing.

Salem

If somebody can get help after this because of that knowledge, then that is completely worth it. Yeah. Yeah. What else on that?

Leo

Oh, and how about a little bit about your journey? Like I know you've had some struggles, but you also had some light shined on some things, and I think that's really helpful.

Salem

Yes, definitely. I had to go through a lot of hoops to finally get my health insurance, and I'm so glad I did because I was diagnosed with bipolar, and that is a really difficult thing to not know that you have and to just live with. And having bipolar or any kind of mental illness makes it really difficult to get help in the first place.

So just to even get to the computer and look up these resources can be such a huge challenge. So that's where sometimes, if possible, it helps to... I was lucky to have a couple of friends and family members who actually, my aunt, she sat down with me and helped me find the psychiatrist. She saw where I was, and if she hadn't helped me, I might not be where I am today. So sometimes you really do just need somebody there to jump through the hoops and help you get that first appointment set up. There's nothing wrong with that, and that can change your life. It literally saved my life.

Leo

So that's so great. I love that message as well because I think a lot of times we think it's uncomfortable to ask for help or like it's, we shouldn't; we should be able to do all this stuff on our own, and there's something wrong with us if we do get help from other people.

But just that idea of "I wouldn't be where I am today. I wouldn't have this diagnosis or even have seen a psychiatrist if I hadn't gotten some help from a loved one." That's, I'm so happy that she did that. But yeah, thanks for sharing that. So you got some mental health help, and then a diagnosis of something that you've had but just didn't know you had. And you said that's really hard to have that and not know it.

Salem

Yeah, absolutely. On that note, I actually have done some pretty powerful alchemy with these diagnoses. And so getting answers, getting diagnosed, is an alchemy of getting solutions. When you figure out what's wrong, you can finally get a treatment that helps you. So I guess where I'm going with that is, I was also diagnosed with Crohn's disease, and I would say that saved my life too, in the sense that a lot of my greatest strengths came from that trial. So I'm now more healthy; I pay more attention to taking care of myself, exercise, what I'm eating, staying hydrated, getting enough sleep.

Taking care of myself is a full-time job, and I wasn't paying any attention to that before my diagnosis. The illness, and not even just the diagnosis, just the illness itself has taught me so much, and I am a much... I wouldn't be a yoga teacher if I didn't have Crohn's disease. Like, I really honestly believe it. So, that is the alchemy that my illnesses have brought me, is they've made me into such a strong and multifaceted person, and every single one of us... Yeah, that's what we can do. Every single one of us can turn our shadows into the brightest gold. I really believe it. It's just, how do we do it? That's the trick.

Leo

So good. And I think not everyone's familiar with Crohn's disease, but it's an autoimmune thing that affects your digestion and like all of your body, right?

Salem

Yes. Yeah. Essentially, the intestines don't digest food properly. So it's like you're eating, but you're not actually eating.

Leo

That's tough. Eating is tough for a lot of people, even without that. But you add that your body is fighting against yourself.

Salem

Yeah. Fun stuff.

Leo

So you touched on self-care. I'd love to just stay there for a minute. So this is something that I haven't talked about this season, but like people who are trying to create. So let's say they have a creative project, or they're trying to move into that. It's so difficult when it feels like we don't have some kind of solid foundation under us. "My life is falling apart, and I don't have the mental space to focus on this."

And so you have the ability to do it, but like you don't have the stability. And I wonder, what you... You said you've been, it's a full-time job taking care of yourself. And so I wonder if you could share a little bit about what you've done to get yourself to the place where you feel taken care of, and you're in a good place health-wise and mental health-wise so that you can actually be in the creative space.

Salem

Sure. For me personally, it's been leaning into ritual and discipline. That and everybody is going to have different things that work for them. But that's what I've been running from my whole life. And actually, with the help of the medicine for the bipolar, it's really helped me correct my sleep schedule. And with a corrected sleep schedule, from there, it's like a domino effect. I've been able to uphold patterns of self-care that leave me with enough energy to actually create more. So even though I'm having to take more care of myself, I'm creating more than I was because I have more resources to do so.

Leo

So, what are some of the things you do now? You mentioned a sleep schedule. Do you have a specific time you go to bed, or do you have a ritual before bed?

Salem

I'm working on the before-bed ritual, but I do go to bed usually around 10 p.m. That's my goal. It fluctuates now, but generally, my goal is to wake up around 6 a.m., though it will fluctuate between six and eight. I start with my sacred rituals. For me, my spirituality is really important, so I have some practices that help me bring myself closer to spirit. I just love starting my day that way.

Then, after that, I go and do my self-care, cleaning up and getting ready for the day, but within the lens of the spiritual work. For example, the shower itself can be a cleansing ritual. It's not just a shower; it's like you're working with the element of water and being healed and nourished. And that's completely changed how I approach my self-care. Because I used to see it as this annoying thing I had to get out of the way, like another shower, another brushing of my teeth, every single day. And oh, I hated it, but now it's something I look forward to because it's this ritual. I'm getting to interact with the elements in this sacred way. You know what I mean? It's that shift in perspective.

Leo

I love the idea of bringing sacredness to our self-care and ritual to the things that feel like, "Oh, I have to do this every day." Do you have any rituals around creation, composing, or making music, anything?

Salem

Yes, I'm still developing those, but one of my rituals would be just to clear my mind beforehand. So like meditation and creating an actual, I like to create a multisensory space to shift my physical experience. So I'm talking scent, you can do incense or essential oils, mood lighting, dim it. Candles are amazing. Taste, I love to have some tea on hand. Something comfy, making sure physically that we're good in the body. And then what's the last one I'm missing? Oh yeah, sound. But in my case, that'll be what I'm creating. But if I were drawing or something, I might put on a playlist in the background, but then I'm in like this bubble that I created.

Leo

A sensory, like a world you've created for yourself. I love that the act of creation is surrounded by another creation, which is the rituals, the space that you've created.

Salem

Totally. And I think that's what helps me get into that creative mindset versus when I don't do that. Cause then I'm just sitting down and I'm like, "Okay, I've got to pump out a masterpiece now." And oh my God, that does not work.

Leo

It doesn't work.

Salem

No, yeah.

Leo

Okay. And I think I could probably talk to you for another couple of hours about all of this, but I'm interested, before we finish, in talking a little bit about the act of creation itself. So you have a couple of places where you create; one is, I think, probably you have a lot, but let's just mention a couple of the big ones. One is sitting down to compose or write, so create music. And another is performing live. And I'm curious about those two things. Cause you brought them together as sound alchemy. So, the live one, let me ask the question of the live one first. With live music, with a live performance, what I imagine is you could get on stage and just do the thing that you practiced, right?

You have some music already ready to go. You know the music really well because you practiced it for hours, let's say, and then you get on there and just do that. So it's almost like following these steps. I don't think that's how you're doing it, but I'm saying that's a possibility. It's just, "Let me just go and do these things." And it's in front of other people, which is different than in my practice, I'm just basically just going through these steps, but I imagine, I'm wondering for you, if there's anything different that happens on a stage in front of others besides being nervous and a perfectionist, is there a way where you're bringing in something in that moment that is unique to that moment as opposed to where you practice?

Salem

Yes. I would say for me right now, that's the idea of giving a gift. So when I'm performing, doing it as an act of love, an intimate connection with every single person in that room, and doing it with the intention of healing. Like, I hope that, cause intention matters, and I really hope that as I'm performing this music, each of these individuals will find healing.

Leo

So, in that moment, you're actually practicing offering that gift.

Salem

Yeah, that's it.

Leo

What could be healing or powerful for these people here offering? I'm imagining there's something that you take in from them as well. It's not just like giving of a gift, but yeah, is there anything about their energy or what's happening in the room around you?

Salem

Sure. I actually love the idea of having an improv section. And so my way of responding to that would be just to improvise, like coming up with music on the spot that is inspired by the vibe, the atmosphere of the room, and the feedback I'm getting from the individuals. So if it's like a more raucous energy, maybe it'd be a higher energy type piece, right? But if it's really low key, then I'm doing long drones, and yeah, that would be really fun to do, actually.

Leo

Yeah. Thanks for sharing that. I also, I just wonder, cause I've never done music performance, so I'm just imagining right now, but even if you're doing like a practice piece, does that piece change based on the energy or the people?

Salem

Very much so, absolutely. For example, if you were trying to perform a piece in front of a crowd that is totally not feeling it, it's really hard not to let that impact the music. I'm sure you can overcome it and just make those people fall in love with your music by playing it passionately, but that's hard. It's a big hurdle to overcome.

Leo

That's so interesting. Okay, and then what kind of performances do you do? Tell people about the performances and maybe they can hire you.

Salem

Yeah, so what I'm creating now is what I'm calling alchemical performances. I'm going to do something very similar to what I was describing in how I create, creating an entire multisensory atmosphere. Then the performance will be my original songs and compositions. I'm a multi-instrumentalist, so I'd be playing piano, cello, singing.

And then, hopefully, I'm trying to build a band of other multi-instrumentalists to help support that. So, I'm really hoping it'll be a very... oh, and I'd love to sell some tea too—whatever teas are offered. I just want it to be a really community-oriented experience. I just want to build a little community, a little world, for just a couple of hours and then pack it up and take it somewhere else.

Leo

Oh, I love tea. So, I would come just for the tea. Cool, and some amazing alchemy. Okay, and then performing—sorry, composing. Yeah. So, tell me a little bit about your process. Like, you don't have to go into detail, but you've created the ritual for actually letting yourself create. Tell me about the actual process of creating.

Salem

Yeah, it's so unique and individual to each piece, so it's hard to sum up, but where I usually start is in the energy, the emotion. So, I just have to really sink into the vibe of whatever it is I'm creating. For example, I wrote two pieces for a horror movie recently called "The Outwaters." One is a song, a dance song, that's like for a club, and the other is a classical, it's a choir piece. So, they're very different.

I'm using my composer muscles and my songwriting muscles. But they both come from the exact same place, which is this dark, deserty energy, basically. So, the two pieces, I feel, match, and I've been told they match, even though they're stylistically so different, because the source is the same, if that makes sense. It's just the expressions, whether I'm using drums or a choir, that changes.

Leo

Do you watch some of the scene first, or?

Salem

Oh, yeah.

Leo

Okay. I was wondering if the director just tells you about it because I think they edit the scene with the music. So, how does that work?

Salem

I can't speak to how all of them work. I know how Robbie, the filmmaker that I work with, works, and he films first and then he edits the clips to the music. But you can also do it the other way, which is where they give you the film and then you just write the music to the film based off of the director's notes.

Leo

But you're watching something before he does the edits to your music. So, what are you watching?

Salem

His film, but without any music. Or with his placeholder music.

Leo

Oh, he puts some placeholder, like this is the vibe.

Salem

Yeah, exactly. There's a whole version of the movie that is just like all totally different songs, but you can't use them. So, yeah, it's interesting. It's an interesting process.

Leo

That's fun. I know nothing about making movies either, so it would be really cool to just watch.

Salem

Oh, yeah. No, I'd love to see Robbie do his magic.

Leo

So, the last thing I wanted to touch on is the work you've done in Fearless Mastery. So, you've been through a few rounds now. I can't remember how many.

Salem

I think this is my fourth.

Leo

A few rounds. You must be coming back for a reason. So, tell me more about that. Like, why did you come into Fearless Mastery? Why did you keep coming back?

Salem

I came into Fearless Mastery because I was in a time when I really needed support. I was in one of the darker places in my life. It was before I'd had the diagnoses, and I was pretty isolated, going through some really difficult things in my life. And I had discovered your interview with Sam Harris, actually, back at the start of COVID, and that I believe saved my life because I was in one of the most uncertain. I was also in the middle of a really horrible breakup and had just been diagnosed with Crohn's disease and lost my health insurance. Everything sucked. And that was like the thing that was my compass. Basically, I was like, "Okay, I can get through the uncertainty." And so then I saw an opportunity open up to work with Fearless Mastery, and I knew that I wanted a community to help me break out of the isolation.

So, I applied, and it's ended up being everything I've needed. The inspiration, first of all, being surrounded by so many incredible people doing so many incredible things. It's impossible not to feed off of that. Just like you were talking about with the audience, feeding off of that energy, it's the exact same thing. And so, it's this giant kettle of inspiration. And that's what I really needed, and the connection with other humans. So, just between that, the connection and the inspiration, that's what I needed to help trigger the series of changes that have led me to where I am.

Leo

Okay, great. And what, is that why you keep coming back?

Salem

Yes. Oh yeah.

Leo

Okay. We can't keep you out.

Salem

No, never.

Leo

Awesome. Okay, so I could talk to you about this for hours, like I said, but I want to respect your time. You have other things to do than be on a podcast, but I really appreciate what you've shared here today. Amazing, powerful stuff. And I hope people will take these messages out of how they could be with their shadows and could transform their anxieties through alchemy.

They can get mental health even if it feels impossible. Some really incredible things. I just want to thank you for what you've shared today. I want to encourage people to go check out your music, to hire you as a performer and get you on doing some gigs. And then as well as come do some alchemy work with you.

Salem

Yes. Oh my gosh. Thank you so much. It's really been incredible to get to explore this with you and to share with everyone.

Leo

Salem, thank you. Thank you for the time. Thank you for the message that you're bringing to the world and for your art.

Salem

Of course. Thank you.

Leo

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